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Podcast 22 | Do Less, Sell More with Bob Heilig – Part 1: Facing Your Fears, Finding Your Purpose, and Serving Your Person through Transformational Selling

Have you wondered how to move past your fears and learn how to find your purpose in business? Listen in as Bob and Heather continue the conversation centered around building your business without social media. Bob’s years of experience in business, first with corporate sales and then as a network marketer set him on a journey towards self development that ended in him learning how to do less while selling more. 

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Episode Highlights:

・Bob gives an overview on background in corporate and network marketing sales

・How selling and serving are connected

・How to reframe your thinking surrounding the word “selling”

・You can’t post your way to a successful business; at some point you have to learn how to sell

・Reframing fear as a tool for growth

・Focus on quality of the actions versus quantity

 · Do less and sell more

 · Learn how to honor your priorities 

Episode Resources/References:

Podcast Pro University 

Stories of Light Podcast Link to Bob’s Interview

Easily Edit Your Podcast

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22 | Do Less, Sell More with Bob Heilig – Part 1: Facing Your Fears, Finding Your Purpose, and Serving Your Person through Transformational Selling

Hey guys. Okay. So today’s episode is seriously huge, and probably one of the most important episodes that I’ve recorded yet. And quite frankly, might be one of the most important episodes that I will ever have on this podcast. So, if you are listening to this, and this is the first time that you have found the Scale Without Social podcast, welcome! It’s my passion to help entrepreneurs grow and scale their business without having to be a slave to social media.

Which doesn’t always mean deleting social media, of course, or not using it altogether. And last week’s episode, we did talk specifically about what that looks like in episode 21. And how to take a digital detox, but still work your business. And today’s episode is really going to focus in on those of you who have a healthy relationship with social media. You’re not necessarily wanting to delete your accounts but you want to build your business in the right way and I think you’re really gonna love what my mentor Bob Heilig has to say he’s kind of a big deal. He leads one of the most amazing podcasts that’s out there serving network marketers right now called the Your Virtual Upline podcast. And there’s so much wisdom over there. So go make sure to check out Bob’s podcast, of course. But I can’t wait to dive into today’s episode and talk a little bit more about a word that might scare you a little bit and that word is selling.

Heather: Hi friends! Okay, I am seriously so excited to have this conversation with someone who has absolutely transformed my life in business. And his name is Bob Heilig, you’ve probably heard of him, if you haven’t, get ready to hear his story. Both in network marketing and also in traditional sales and how he has built his businesses with, and without social media. And doing it the right way by focusing on transformational conversations

So Bob now leads an amazing community called Love, Serve, Grow that helps network marketers build their business. And I cannot wait to talk with him about this. So, Bob, thank you so much for being here today.

Bob: Yeah, thank you, Heather. I’m, I’m excited to get a chance to chat with everybody. I love the mission behind, and the mission and the message behind the show.

So I can’t wait to have this conversation with you.

Heather: Awesome. Awesome. Well, first I would love for you to kind of give the back story. Of course, I did interview you on my other podcast called Stories of Light, where we dive a little bit more into your personal journey and testimony and business.

And so I can link that episode in the show notes. But since this podcast in particular, I focus on helping entrepreneurs grow their business without being a slave to social media or having to become an online influencer. I’d love for you to start with just your background in maybe traditional sales and how you got to where you are today.

Bob: Yeah, so I came up in traditional corporate sales, right outta college, and the end part of my career, I spent about 10 years in the medical sales space. So I went, I went through all that corporate sales training. And that was really helpful for me in terms of my early personal development and growth.

And then I got introduced to network marketing. I’m gonna date myself a little bit here, but all the way going back to the year 2000, was when I first got into my first network marketing company. Now I was relatively new in my sales career. But I mention that because when we talk about not becoming a slave to social media. I didn’t have the option of building with social media back then.

I can remember when I first started in my first network marketing company, having to be mindful of how many people I texted because text messaging costs so much money. And I can literally remember having my down line report faxed to me. So, you know, so we’ll just leave it at that.

But I had a, I had a four year stint in that company. It was a crash course in personal development and learning and facing my fears and growing as a leader. I had a little bit of success, but never really what I thought or hoped that I would. And I actually wound up leaving that company, thinking I would never do network marketing again.

And I got refocused on my sales career and I said, I’m just gonna work a job and I’m gonna work hard and I’m gonna make that be my thing. And I did that for about five years, and then I realized that I, I’m an entrepreneur at heart. And I just had these dreams of doing something bigger. And and I got back into the profession in 2011.

And in that second go around taking a lot of the early lessons that I learned and understanding what I needed to do differently. I was a different person, admittedly so at that point I was older and a little bit more mature. I had a much higher level of success in that company and it, it enabled me to walk away from my corporate sales career.

Heather: Awesome. Well, that’s one of the things I love so much about the network marketing industry is, you know, the barrier of entry is really low and truly anybody can do it if they just do the hard work. It’s not easy, but it is simple. As you teach, I learned that from you. But I’m sure that your background in selling in the corporate America and everything that you learned through that helped. Did you find that that helped your network marketing business?

Yeah, it did. It, it hurt in some ways because, and I, I’m not afraid to admit this today. I did have a little bit of an ego. And when I, when I came well, only from the perspective of, I felt like I knew what I needed to do to be successful.

And so, you know, my upline would train me and teach me the, the simplicity of their system. And, and I just, you know, I overcomplicated it because I was a medical sales person. And and what I realized was it’s the simplicity of the business that is the beauty of it.

Bob: But having the skill of selling a hundred percent helped me. And what’s interesting is so many people in this profession, we have such a resistance to the word sales because our perception of what it is, is you know, it’s kind of like forcing people and pushing them. It’s manipulating them. And we’ve all been a part of that kind of an interaction with someone.

But I viewed sales very differently coming into this profession because I understood that, you know, selling and serving did not have to be two mutually exclusive things.

And today, when I think what we’re taught, and this is a huge limiting belief a lot of people have. Is, it’s so popular for people to say things like serve, don’t sell, serve, don’t sell.

And listen, I’ve said that many times before I really understood. Yeah, it’s with good intentions, but here’s the thing is it actually creates resistance to the word sales.

And the truth of it is this is when, when done properly, it is possible to sell with a servant heart. When done properly, selling someone, getting someone to buy from you, getting them to join your team is the greatest opportunity you will ever have to serve them. We think will serve people by just putting out content on social media.

And that is a full service on some level, there is some value. But real service does it. So it’s almost like people think I’m gonna serve so I can sell. I’m gonna serve on social media so I can get somebody to buy. Somebody that really understands service and sales. Here’s what they think; I start serving once they buy.

Because that’s when you, the, the transformation comes after the transaction. That’s when you have a real opportunity to make a difference in someone’s life.

But a lot of people resist selling because they think of it this way. All sales is, it’s a conversation, that’s it. That’s what sales is.

It’s a conversation. The skill of selling, is learning how to have a conversation with someone that creates enough value for what it is that you’re doing that they actually want to take a look. And in the world that we live in today, this is a skill that is almost completely ignored. Because there’s so much of a focus put on marketing and social media content. The whole attraction, marketing phase, curiosity, marketing. It’s literally, it’s led people to believe that if they just get good enough at doing things like creating reals or stories or lives, that people will just magically start showing up into their inboxes and DMS, ready to sign up.

And that does happen for a very small, very, very small percentage of people.

But even those people, if you look behind the scenes, they don’t have an actual business. They don’t have freedom. Social media is their full-time job. And they have to hustle every single day just to maintain what they’re, what they’ve created. For the average person they can’t even do that, but they’re being sold a bill of goods that’s simply not true for most people.

You can’t post your way, a way to a successful business. At some point, you have to learn how to sell.

What good is it putting all this time and attention into marketing? The only reason why we create content on social media is we hope that it can create an opportunity for us to have a conversation with someone that could be a prospect.

And then think about when that happens, people fall flat on their face. They stumble, bumble, fumble over what to say. They pitch right away and they lose people right from the get go. How does that make sense? I’ll even take it a step further. Think about it this way. Think about the average person that joins your team.

They’re not already an influencer. They don’t have a following online. They’re not, like my wife is not doing reels and live videos. Right? They’re, they’re a normal person that you know, is on social media, but mostly consuming stuff. They’re a little bit introverted. They don’t have a super high level of like confidence and they’re not already a leader.

And what happens is those types of people join our team. And then we, we say, go be a marketer. Do reels, do stories. And it becomes, it is so hard for them to do that. And here’s the other side of it, because God knows, unfortunately, we see lots of these people. They just aren’t good at it. Right? Like how many times have you seen somebody, a new person, doing a real or going live and you’re just like, oh man, I wish she would not do that. Yeah.

I mean, let’s be honest, that marketing is a skill. And so we thrust them into this world of marketing. It becomes overwhelming for them. They put all this time and attention into doing it and it comes at the expense of having conversations.

So what my point is this, selling is a skill that is way easier to teach a new person than marketing.

They might not know how to do a reel, but you want to know what they know how to do? Have a conversation with someone. But the thing is this, they have to be intentional about the kind of conversation they have.

So we teach a specific way of selling. We call transformational selling. But if you can teach somebody how to sell, how to have a conversation that creates value. They’ll get results way faster. But then here’s the other side of it, their marketing will become better. Because let’s think of what is marketing?

All marketing is, is having a sales conversation out loud. The best marketers in the world are also the best sales people. The reason why their content gets all that engagement, followers and all those results is because they fundamentally think about what they do and say differently than you. Wow. Now they don’t talk about selling.

Some of them are not even that conscious of the fact that they’re what they’re doing is selling through marketing, but that’s all marketing is. So if you can teach somebody some of the core, basic principles of sales, how to do it the right way, and they then begin to take some of those same conversations and just have them out loud through their content.

All of a sudden, they start seeing results, right? How many people that are listening to this now are like, well, Bob, I’m doing the reels and I’m doing the lives and I’m on five different platforms and you know, but nothing’s happening. It’s cuz you don’t know how to sell that’s that’s the bottom line reason.

So, so when I realized that and I thought back to my old sales training and I’m like, man, like it’s to me, it’s so obvious what people need today. In our business now doing coaching and, and having, having had a chance to work with lots and lots of students. It is so crystal clear to me that the world we live in right now, today in this very moment, June of 2022, this is I think the most important conversation that anybody needs to hear in this profession today.

Heather: Wow, my goodness. So much goodness there and something that really stood out to me, that I think a lot of network marketers, and I’m curious to get your opinion on this, that it’s a disservice to focus on marketing as the primary method of generating and building a network marketing business. Because there are so many women like your wife, for example, who don’t want that.

Their, their personal definition of success, as you talk about a lot in Love, Serve, Grow isn’t to become an online influencer. And so they’re not joining, not because they. Don’t love the product or because they don’t know how to have a conversation like you were saying. They’re not joining because they don’t wanna show up in the way that they see people showing up in their business.

And so I know that’s who I’m speaking to through this podcast is the person who wants to do it in a different way. But I’d also love you to address head on, cause I wanna be very clear that some people avoid social media or marketing out of fear. And one of the things I loved learning from you through Love, Serve, Grow is the principle of growth oriented actions, versus, income producing activities.

And so I’d love for you to talk about that. Like kind of conviction for someone, from someone who doesn’t wanna show up that way, versus, someone who is afraid of what that looks like.

Bob: Yeah. So I’d love to start with this first, and then we can talk about the whole G.O.A., I.P.A. thing. Why would somebody be afraid to go online and put themself out there?

It’s because they lack the clarity in terms of who they are creating the content for.

So here’s one of the things that I’ll hear quite a bit from our clients. They’ll say to me, you know, I’m totally fine going live in my team, Facebook group, but the mere thought of me doing that on my personal profile is like, you know, paralyzing to me.

And here’s the reason why that is, when they’re going live in their team group, they are crystal clear who they’re creating that content for. I mean, it it’s literal people. So like what they don’t, what they’re not tuned into is as they’re thinking of, what do I want to say? And as they’re delivering it, they are literally, they have those people in their mind.

So they have clarity on who it is they’re looking to help with the content. But then when it comes to their, just social media in general, we have no clue what we’re. You know, because the thought process is I want help everyone. . Because we have a, we have a scarcity mindset. So we think that I have to try to be, you know, something to everyone, because that’s the way that I’m gonna build a business.

So what happens is we don’t have an emotional connection to the action of doing a video. Let’s just take that as an example. So that’s why we have fear because there’s so much uncertainty, who is gonna see it. See, when you’re clear on who it is, you’re creating the content for, the opinions of people that aren’t that person matter less to you.

So what we help people do is get really clear on who it is they’re looking to help through their business. And what, what I find in most cases, when you can walk people through this specific process, there’s always a specific person that they’re looking to help through their business. And then there’s a specific person that they’re looking to help through their products.

Those people may or may not be the same, but when you can give people the clarity on who that is. This is what we see from our clients all the time. They’ll say I’m going live and I feel totally different about it because now in their mind, they literally can think of and see the person. Now, it’s not an actual person, but in their mind, they know that there’s those kinds of people out there.

So it helps them get over the fear of doing that. So I find in most cases, fear really stems from a lack of confidence, also from a lack of clarity. And so we help people starting with that. But the other side of it, like what you mentioned. Fear serves a really important purpose in our business. Fear, if we learn how to identify the things that we’re afraid of, we, we also realize that most of the time, those are the things that if we can learn how to do, will also be the things that become the biggest catalyst of our personal growth.

So we grow through our fears, right? That’s the way that we grow, when we’re doing things. So like, if you think of the things you do in your business every day, that are second nature to you, a lot of those things at some point probably triggered some form of fear in you.

So you started doing those things and you grew, and you started to see better results. But you got to a point. See, the analogy that I use is this, we can extract the growth out of an action for ourself. So maybe you’re somebody that you used to be deathly afraid of reels, but then you started doing reels and it helped you grow personally, it started to grow your business. But you’ve gotten to a point now where you do reels you don’t even have to think about it, but you’re stagnant and you’re stuck.

Well it’s because reels are no longer a growth oriented action for you because it’s not triggering fear. So what we say is, what are the things that when you think of do cause you to feel fear?

So we help people identify the actions where they have the fear and start leaning into doing those things so that they can continue to grow and get better. So anybody that is in our community or has ever heard me talk. When we talk about fear, we have a term, we call red light story. So where are your red light stories?

And the way that, you know, a lot of times people they get discouraged when they feel afraid or they have a red light story, they beat themselves up. Well, when you understand what I’m teaching you, now, you, you won’t get discouraged when you’re afraid. You’ll actually be excited and you’ll embrace the fear. Because you’ll recognize that that fear or that red light story, right on the other side of that is a growth oriented action.

It’s a chance for you to grow. And in our community with this thing that we teach called Love, Serve, Grow, a huge shift that we help people make is to become growth oriented instead of results focused. So when we’re feeling afraid, it’s because we’re attached to, and focusing on the result of the action.

We define success by the yeses or the no’s, and that’s always gonna be a scary proposition for us. When you become growth oriented, you look at fear as an opportunity for you to grow. Growth, becomes the primary objective and concern. And what you believe is that if you grow, the results will come to you.

So we’re letting go of our attachment to results. So that might mean I’m gonna do a reel. I’m afraid of it. I’m not gonna attach myself to how many people watch it or how many people like it. I’m gonna do it because I know if I can face that fear and do it, that I am a success because I did it and I grew. You’re not a success because of how many people liked it or watched it or shared it far too many people in this profession define success by the external results and achievements of their business.

And it’s a failing proposition, 10 outta 10 times.

Heather: Oh, man, that was a big lesson that I had to learn because when I first found your program, I was definitely, what you call an accidental leader. I was having results personally, because like you, I was kind of doing things my own way. I came from the background as a traditional entrepreneur. But unfortunately it wasn’t necessarily leading to duplication on my team.

And so one of the things I know I learned from you is that if it works for me, but if it doesn’t work for everyone on my team, then it doesn’t work in network marketing. And so what I am curious to get your opinion on is in terms of social media and things like nicheing down or doing two reels a day, every single day, jumping on multiple platforms, taking over TikTok.

Do you find that that is something that can duplicate well? And is that something that only works for some or can work for everyone? What, what’s your take on that? .

Bob: Yeah. So let me, first thing I’ll recommend to everybody completely eliminate the word niche from your vocabulary.


Okay. I haven’t met a single person that will use the term niche and it makes them feel better about themselves.

We have, I go through those kinds of trainings and, I’m more confused than when I started. Here’s what you need to start saying to yourself who is the person you want to help? It’s an actual person. Okay. So just that as, you know, context for this discussion, but, so here’s a big part of what we teach today.

Heather, we, as I mentioned earlier, we teach aspiring network marketing leaders, how to create hustle, free success and build a life first business.

Now, a really big part of this is learning how to do less. Doing less is one of the most important things that you will ever do in your business for sustainable success.

Most of the people in this profession today are hustling harder to success. And what I mean by that is hustling harder is based on two beliefs that really don’t serve us long term. That the only way we can be successful is we have to go fast and we have to do more. This hustle culture that’s really been kind of modeled to us today in this space is literally killing people’s businesses.

Because see the person that we serve in our, in our business and we’re really clear on this. She is a person of faith and she has a family. And so by the, just the nature of those things. Hustling harder will always feel like it’s an opposition of her values and priorities. Now, if you’re a single person and you want your business to be your life, and you’re fine working 24/7.

Then guess what? So be it. I’m not judging! But as a father and a person of faith, those things are not in alignment with what I want. I value freedom and I value faith over financial success. Doesn’t mean I don’t wanna make a lot of money. I do. But if you gave me the choice of money or freedom, I’ll choose freedom every single time.

So, but so many people are hustling and what happens is we’re doing a lot and we’re working hard and we’re not seeing the results we want. So we keep doing more. Well, maybe I need to go to TikTok cuz somebody said TikTok and now we I’m doing reels, but I’m not doing enough stories. Now I’m gonna do stories. And I got my Facebook group.

Like where people are spreading themselves, way too thin. And what winds up happening is we get exhausted and we burn out. You can’t sustain success that way some people can become successful, but most people will just struggle to create any kind of results.

They’ll be spending lots of time and effort and going nowhere.

So the first thing we teach people is this, you must slow down and you must start doing less. This is very hard for people because we live in a very transactional profession, where hustle is the accepted standard of how you become successful.

We’ve been forced fed massive action, go fast, recruit 20 in 20 days. And we’ve all heard these things, and this is what we’re led to believe. And it’s really hard for somebody to literally just, I, I almost envision the, the, the breaks screeching, and now all of a sudden they’re driving in the opposite direction of the rest of the world.

It’s really hard for people to slow down. Because the minute we slow down, we start to get really afraid, cuz we feel like we’re behind and we’re going in the opposite direction. But we teach people to slow down, not for the sake of going slow. But to really get clear on what are the most important things that you need to be focusing your time and attention on what are the things that only you can do that if you do are gonna yield you the biggest results.

And as we begin the process of learning how to do less, part of that is we just straight up eliminate some things that are just not producing any return on our time or bringing us any joy. We might start automating certain things. We might start delegating to other people, but we give ourselves permission to do less and do it better.

Focus on the quality of the actions we’re taking before the quantity. You can never sacrifice the quality of the actions for quantity and start to really understand what that looks like. Being anti hustles doesn’t mean you don’t work hard and we’re not telling you to slow down, cuz we want you to go slow.

We want you to find a groove in your business. That is in alignment with the kind of life that you wanna create that honors the priority. So many people are just taking, their actions are aligned with a business goal, right? Top rank. I’m just gonna work so hard and do everything I can get to get to the top rank.

We never even take the time to consider how do we wanna feel, or what do we actually want our lives to look like? See if you start there and then you look at your business, not as the end, but a means to an end, you start to give yourself permission to show up in your business differently.

And by the way not everybody’s goal is the top rank. And that’s fine.

If you’re clear on the kind of life you want to create, how you want to feel, and what’s most important to you and you understand what kind of a business you would need to create to support you living that life. That goal of yours might not be anywhere near the top rank, and guess what, that is amazing. And it is totally fine.

And we need to learn how to support and encourage and cheer people on that that’s where they want to be.

So do less. If you’re doing 10 different things and it’s not working for you recognize that. We, I challenge anybody, do one thing for 30 days. One thing, choose one thing for 30 days.

Like if you’re struggling in your business right now, I promise you, you could stop doing everything and it’s not gonna make any difference for you. Cause you’re not, it’s not working for you now as it is. So just press pause on it all, slow down and stop, and choose one thing to focus your time and attention on for the next 30 days. Because here’s what will happen as you begin to do less and simplify your accountability will increase.

You will be less likely to follow through and do the things you want to do if you’re asking yourself to do too much. So here’s the roller coaster of inconsistency that so many people get on, cuz they’re just putting too much demand on themselves. See, give yourself permission to just do one thing at a level that you know is doable for you and watch how much more likely you are to do it.

And if you’re more consistent and you’re doing things the right way, you’re focusing on the quality of the actions what’ll happen is you will create better results in far less time and effort.

Heather: Well, and it’s funny you say that, cuz as you’re, you’re talking about this, I think what can happen, I think about a girl on my team. She’s an amazing leader, Leah, who has learned how to do sales the right way. And she decided for 30 days, this was back in November to go all in for reels, like so many have done. And through that focus, wound up having a tremendous personal result, which was absolutely mind blowing. And I’m seeing it now, some of those numbers even blown outta the water by people who are doing the same thing.

But what happens is that leader, either if we’re leading that leader or they are that leader, sometimes the comparison aspect sets in when we recognize those high sales. And I know one of the principles that you also talk about is the gap and the gain from that awesome book that I learned about through your community. And that gap from where people are and where they wanna be starts to widen, as people start to have these incredible results from doing exactly what you’re talking about.

So how do you handle as a leader or having a leader on your team who is having massive success and how do you balance recognizing them and giving them that, that credit that they deserve without creating that kind of comparison or FOMO or feeling of people having to work harder?

Bob: Yeah. Well, so you have to recognize people like that, right?

I mean, somebody’s working hard like that. You that’s, you need to recognize those people. I think what you do, there’s a couple of things that come to mind. You need to recognize other types of people as well. Most leaders only recognize for the big achievements they don’t acknowledge the fact that there are all different types of people with all different levels of commitment and time that are in an organization.

So you have to be super intentional about how you recognize and who you recognize. We have to take into consideration diversity. We have to take into consideration, commitment level. We have to take into consideration, balancing achievement and activity and effort. Like you should be recognizing people just for putting in the work.

You should be recognizing people that are demonstrating the value that you want to embody in your team. Like in our community, Love, Serve, Grow one of our values is family is a family first business. So we literally recognize people that don’t work. That people that people say for the first time in since I can remember, I completely shut my business off for the weekend.

Heather: Yes.

Bob: I’ll give you an example. We had one of our, one of our community members said I don’t remember exactly, but she was going on vacation with her family and she told her husband that she wasn’t gonna work her business for the week vacation. And she was like, he almost had a heart attack. Like, wait, you, you know, but like, we recognize that.

Yeah, because we wanna celebrate that kind of thing. We, you know, we want to give people permission to create boundaries and to honor their priorities. And so I think that that’s like a, a really big part of this.

Heather: Yeah, I totally agree. Cause I’ve experienced that, as I was telling you before we hit record, that is me. The last time we, we chatted on your podcast. I was definitely that, that worker, that achiever, that really enjoyed spending a lot of hours in my business, but it unfortunately was at the detriment of the time with my family. And so I have completely flipped that script within the last year. And what I have found is that my leaders actually thrive more when I give them more freedom.

And I can think of a specific example. Very similarly, when I went on vacation with my husband and I, it took everything in me to just shut that phone off and not respond. But I had coached this new artist on how to launch her business and do it the right way. She had everything she needed to run with it and sure enough, she did. And she reached the top 2% of the company.

So it has a kind of a ripple effect when you do it. And, and now it’s become more of a rhythm for me to, to want to be more like that. So I’m so thankful that you, that you taught me that part.

Bob: Yeah. It’s well, so that’s such a great example, Heather, cuz so the way that I say it. I just, I sent an email out to our community last week about this.

Heather: Yes. I’ve forwarded it to that leader! Actually! I said remember this?

Bob: So I was doing a coaching session with one of our clients, a very successful leader that had just given birth to her first child. And she, you know, she was, I think it, you know, it had been about a month since she had her child.

On the coaching session, she was expressing this guilt to me. And the guilt was really stemming from that she didn’t feel like she was leading by example for her team. Because she wasn’t present in the group and going live and she hadn’t, you know, "I wasn’t getting any customers" and I feel she had created this red light story around how this was gonna have a negative impact on her business.

And what I pointed out to her, I said, well, I said, what if leading by example, wasn’t always about you doing. Sometimes the best example that we can set as a leader is about us not doing in a very intentional way.

I said, you want to know the best thing that you can do for your team right now, make sure of your business? Focus 100% on being a mom and make sure everybody knows that that’s what you’re doing. Honor that priority of your life, cuz it’s like, and, and this was somebody that these fears were unfounded, her business wasn’t suffering, right?

I’m like show people why we do this! Like be the living embodiment of freedom and don’t feel guilty for that. Don’t be apologetic, celebrate it! Right? You have a responsibility to people not to work. And where this really becomes damaging, Heather, is your, your, real leaders.

Because I can remember as I started rank advancing up and I started to see behind the curtains of our top mentors. And I started to see how much of a hustle life they had. Seven days a week. The answer was always do more. You’re not talking to enough people.

You know, my mentor guilted me one time cause I didn’t have a meeting on the weekend. He goes, oh, it must be nice to take off on the weekends. I got three meetings. Like this was the, this was how I was brought up. And what it, what it did for me was it started to create an internal resistance to success. Cuz I’m like, I’m already working so hard and I’m so far from where he is. So he’s telling me, in order for me, like I’m gonna get there and be working, like, why am I doing this?

Right? And so that’s part of it. But you, what you just said is the other part of it. When we step away. What it does is it creates a space. It’s like a vacuum for other people to have to step up. So when you do things like that, it forces you to delegate. And what happens as we begin to delegate and give other people the opportunities to do things, those become opportunities for them to grow and elevate in their own leadership.

So we say delegate to elevate.

And so that ties into doing less. One of the most important things as a leader you can do is learn how to do less. It’s this constant pursuit of learning, how to gracefully say no to most of the stuff that you can do to only focus on the things that you must do.

Heather: Oh, that is so good!

And I, I love that you brought up that, that story and that email and it is it’s so relevant and it was really cool and full circle for me to be able to literally hit forward and send that to Ariel and have us, both of us reflect on the impact that that’s had on our business. And also a reminder for her cuz she has a newborn now that’s the cool thing is she’s exactly in that space.

Bob: Yeah. That’s great

Heather: So it’s a good reminder for her on how to show up and, and that way for her growing team.

Bob: Can we circle back to that last question though? Cause I do have something else I wanna add. So why do we do that so much? There’s only two different types of mindsets that you can have in your business.

Okay. This is one of the things we teach in our Love, Serve, Grow program. You’re either transactional or you’re transformational. These two concepts are the through line for everything in your business. You sell transactionally or transformationally. You lead transactionally or transformationally. And what determines that is your mindset are, do you think transactionally and transformationally?

So here’s the biggest difference. We’ve already kind of talked about this. Transactional thinking is always results focused. So your definition of success is tied directly to the results of your business. So like when we think of somebody saying yes or no. Somebody says, yes, we feel validated, we feel good enough, we feel like we’re doing something right.

Somebody says, no, it’s the exact opposite. See, because we go even further than just defining success by the result, we literally attach our sense of self worth to the results. And when you have a transactional mindset, no matter what you do, it’s never gonna be enough. Because one of the predominant conditions with a transactional mindset is compete and compare.

It’s a, it’s scarcity thinking. So you’ll set a goal, you’ll start working towards that goal. You’ll, you’ll get three quarters of the way there, which was further than you’ve ever gotten in your business. But the only thing you’ll focus on is the fact that you fell just short. So this is the gap in the gain that we’re talking about.

When we’re transactional, we’re always focused on the gap between where we are and where we said we wanted to be. The goal is success or failure. The goal is I’m good enough, or I’m not good enough.

Never mind the fact that we just achieved something in our business, we had never achieved before. Never mind the fact that we showed up every day and did the work. Stretched ourself, faced our fears, grew, saw progress. We didn’t count the small wins. We just focused on the gap. That’s the reason people compare because they have a transactional way of seeing the world. They see one person out there that did something more and we immediately compare what we did to that other person.

The way that we try to mitigate that is we teach people how to have more of a transformational mindset. And a transformational mindset is one where you’re not, it’s not that you don’t want the results, you do. You still have goals when you’re transformational. You still want people to say yes, the difference is you don’t need them to say yes and you don’t need to hit the goal to feel better about yourself.

Your self worth is not rooted in what you do. It is rooted in who you are. It is inherent in your creation. And when we let go of our attachment to the results, when we learn how to make ourself feel better, despite the results. When we learn how to start focusing on growth and our definition of success shifts from I got the result to, I did the work. I grew, I’m counting my small wins.

You you’re not a success when you hit the goal, you’re a success every single day that you show up working towards the goal. When you’re showing up with that mindset, you don’t compete and you don’t compare. You don’t view other people as competition. You don’t, from a place of scarcity, see someone else’s success mean that there is less for you.

You don’t compare yourself to others. You compare yourself to yourself, you run your own race. You give yourself a little bit of grace and a little bit of compassion to know that everybody’s journey is different. And it doesn’t mean that those thoughts don’t creep in, they always will. But you stay rooted in this transformational mindset and that helps you begin to let go of some of these things.

Heather: Yes. Yes. Amen to that.

Okay, so, whoa, how much gold did Bob just bring? Well, I have good news for you. This interview is not over. I decided to split this interview into two, because we were just having such an awesome conversation. And I know your time is super valuable. So we decided to split this episode into two parts.

The next episode, episode 23 will be the second part. And you will not want to miss it because we get into everything from the social selling, versus network marketing, versus affiliate marketing and how that is impacting and changing our industry. And I get Bob’s advice and insight and wisdom on some pretty tough topics. So you’re not gonna want to miss it!

And I look forward to sharing more about Bob’s amazing wisdom with you guys next week in the next episode. But thanks for listening today. Please head on over to the Scale Without Social community for female entrepreneurs. To give me your thoughts on the things that we talked about today. That’s your homework and your homework every week.

You can, as always, text the word podcast, to 912-405- 8912. In order to get a link to that group and a little bit more information about how you can stay plugged in with the Scale Without Social podcasts. So thank you guys again for listening and I hope you have a fabulous week!

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